They should ship Windows 3.1 in a Vista box and ask, "Does this comply with your anti-trust rulings?"

indeed.

Of course the EC doesnt want to review it first. They want to wait until it hits stores, so they can sue, and fund the next air bus.

They can hand out penalties but they can't take the time to level wih MS on progress? What the hell kind of example does that set?

If it were financially possible, MS should "delay indefinitly" the release of vista in Europe. They need businesses and consumers on their side if they ever want to break out from under the EC's black hood.

look we have laws here in Europe and M$ has to follow these laws like Europe has to follow laws from the US that Europe doesn't like.....

Ah, but the European Commission, one would think, has an obligation to fully disclose their requirements to Microsoft prior to Microsoft releasing their product, wouldn't you agree? In an open society, such behavior is the only way that laws hold any meaning. How can a business do business when the governing authority keeps moving the goalposts on them...or keeps the goalposts hidden all together? (That the EC is doing this, by the way, is irrefutable.) An ex post facto ruling by the EC on Microsoft's compliance undercuts the rule of law in the EU by definition. Having laws is one thing, but making sure that all sides play by them--including the governing authority--is quite another.

Europe is an important market for M$ and putting VISTA more late on the market in Europe will cost M$ much money.

Europe is only as important a market to Microsoft as Microsoft deems it to be. The moment that the costs of the endless jumping through hoops demanded by the EC become too onerous, then Europe will cease to be a market of any importance to Microsoft. This is Econ. 101. Now, it may take a lot of onerous hoop-jumping, but there is a limit to what a company can accept. Microsoft just has deep enough pockets to have a high tolerance threshold.

And...can we all drop the M$ bit? That's so 1990s....

lol @ Starkers....

I think RaHarakhte pretty much nailed it.

starkers

To all those M$ remoted guys. Europe has as much inhabitants as the USA have. So if they start to sell it more late in the EU, then they will loose sympathy and maybe loose customers. Some guys underestimate the EU. On the other side, when it is shipped later in Europe it might have seen some bug fixes already. This is a good thing Maybe they ship it with SP1 or 2. This would be fine

Some guys underestimate the EU.

No we don't...most of us see the EU's leaders as fascist arsewipes trying to dictate to the world's manufacturers/developers/traders what they can or can not include in the products/services they're offering. Vista is MS' intelectual property and it should be free to distribute the OS as it sees fit...not as some pencil pushing bureaucrat thinks it should be shipped.

Put another way....if you were a shoe manufacturer, would you have the EU deny you the right to sell your products with laces, because your matching laces shut out your competitors similar but not quite the same laces? And would you want millions of dollars in fines inflicted upon you for wanting to sell your complete product, as it was intended to be sold to the WW market?

The EU has got it all wrong and needs to get a grip....MS has never prevented 3rd party developers from creating viable software for any Windows OS, in fact, MS even has provision for some Apple/Mac programs to be installed in Windows....Quicktime Player and iPod technologies being just a couple that come to mind. Simply put, if these whinging 3rd party developers can't come up with/market competitive and viable software alternatives, then they need to be seeking another line of business and quit bugging the EU's pencil pushers to champion/plead their petty causes.

They won't lose customers. Whenever MS brings Vista to market in Europe, everyone will jump at it. MS owns the desktop OS market, and despite all the claims by Mac and Linux users, that hold isn't going to be shaken anytime soon.

Precisely! The EU might think it has MS by the short n' curlies, but I tend to think it's the other way around. Microsoft has the resources, marketing strategies and ability to tell the EU to get stuffed and indefinitely withold Vista's Eureopean release, yet still offer its European consumers which ever version of Vista they may desire (with or without WMP and IE) via direct shipping and/or alternative market outlets. Quite frankly, I hope that's exactly what MS does to circumvent the EU's Gestapo tactics.

I mean, if you were able to ask the average European PC user if they care whether or not Windows ships with a media player and browser, etc, I believe the resounding response would be that they really don't give a hoot so long as the OS is stable and works. Essentially, it comes down to a matter of personal choice/preference, and the EU is trying to legislate on that, then enforce restrictions on companies like MS when it should be the consumer who decides if he/she wants IE/WMP and/or the 3rd party alternatives on offer.

Everyone else in the world can install 3rd party alternatives to those additional programs included by MS, so what is it with the EU...don't they think they have constituents who are capable of free choice....setting aside WMP/IE if they would much rather use Winamp/Firefox or some other media player/browser? Given the European culture has been around for quite a few millenia now, you'd think those pompous twits who sit around the EU's round table would have much greater faith in their subjects than that....but oh, silly me, it isn't about the people, is it!!! Sorry, I forgot, it's really about the flagging EU economy, high unemployment and its inability to compete fairly with the U.S. and Asian markets. So with a few pen/keyboard strokes, a mouse click here and there, they're attempting to create a fairer playing field (but only for themselves).

It might look good on paper, you effing dipsticks, and on paper it might look like it'll work, but in the real world it's hard work, effort and innovation that cuts it. Sadly, you're stifling all that with your lame legislation....and suing MS millions per day isn't gonna drag yer arses out of the economic gutter.

There are only a few comments at the beginning which I find little out a fair play.

Holgi:, I'm like a race announcer, I call it as I see it....and in this case, I see the EU behaving like the school-yard bully, the enforcer trying to extract from others what he covets and does not have himself.

As for calling the Eu's hierachy dictators, fascist arsewipes, well I don't see that as being out of fair play, frankly. There's a strong comparison between Hitler storming though Europe to impose his will and extract that which he coveted, and the EU trying to impose its will upon MS and other foreign companies. The only difference is that Hiltler used military means...while the EU's strong arm tactics and economic thuggery are translated to paper via un-envisioned minds and enforced in biased EU court rooms by self serving legal administrators with tunnel vision.

However my criticism is not purely reserved for the EU. I also frown upon and dislike companies such as Symantec, companies that would rather do battle in courtrooms than compete in the marketplace...companies who strive to thwart, bring down and undermine the efforts others instead of focussing on their own business, products and services.

For example: my garden is unkempt, has 36cm high grass, bushes that severely need pruning and garden beds full of weeds, slugs and other pests that would eat any nice plant I may have had. On the other hand, my neighbour has a beautifully tended garden with immaculate lawns, shrubs and plants all pruned to perfection and garden beds with amazingly colourful flowers, etc.....and of course, he wins the $5000 neighbourhood prize for best garden each year. Now the question is, do I sue him because he has more and better tools than I to do the job, or do I get out there and put some effort and innovation into my own garden to give it a chance, if not for 1st prize, then maybe 2nd or 3rd? Obviously the first option would be ridiculous, and that's what these whinging manufacturers/traders have to realise.....it's not about what the other guy has, but about doing the absolute best with what you've got.

Sadly, there's too many limp wristed faggots in the business world who just don't have the cahonies and would rather run crying to some pencil pushing twit to fight his battles for him.....enter the EU. And then you have pompous twerps like Steve Jobs, whose tunnel vision for Apple Computers is holding it back from a greater market share.... he needlessly whines because he won't reduce prices, change the exclusive marketing strategies or make Mac OSes available to run on PC's, etc. Case in point here is that it's Jobs' pomous ego holding Apple back, not what MS or anyone else does or doesn't do....yet he's still been known to go whining to the courts about other companies in the hope of creating a better market foothold.

Aha! Jobs! The EU! Jobs + EU? We know Jobs sits on the Boards of Disney as well as Apple, maybe somebody could check to see if he has a seat on the Board at the EU as well....as in, Jobs + Eu = double trouble for MS. Do I smell a conspiracy here, the EU demanding that MS reveals its codes....so maybe Jobs can get his hands on it as well?