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Lol.., where are the copy rights?

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TYCUS
TYCUS
Join Date 09/2004
+43
Reply #51 June 8, 2006 9:56:30 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
'fair' ...


...lets get into the main point
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Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #52 June 8, 2006 10:00:46 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Hopefully Wincustomize.com can have a nice new shiny "Report this as a rip" button on each upload [as DeviantArt does] so this public 'outing' won't occur.

Sounds even better [from post #32]...

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TYCUS
TYCUS
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #53 June 8, 2006 10:05:05 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
"Report this as a rip" button


lol.., ok, ready for the noob question ?


How does this button work?
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TYCUS
PoSmedley
Join Date 04/2005
+788
Reply #54 June 8, 2006 10:20:38 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I'm just stupid or something, I dunno.

If you take any image, altered or not, that was created by someone other than yourself, and upload it with your name as author, without the original authors permission or giving credit to the author,I thought you were resigning it wether you put your sig on the image or not. You're still uploading it as your work with no credit to the original author, leading everyone to think that you created it.

It is assumed that an uploaded bootskin will either have a wall drawn BY the uploader [and can be signed by him] or 'belongs' to someone else [and used with permissions/whatever] and will then NOT be signed by him.


I suppose it is the word 'assumed' that is confusing. The mods assume someone has obtained the rights or permissions, but it's not required you submit them for the work to be approved. Perhaps if such rights were required, less rips would be posted and people browsing would not see such an image and 'assume' it was ripped. I would assume if I uploaded a boot with a pic of Jessica Simpson in a thong, no one would assume it was from my private photo album of my last birthday party and Jess told me I could use the pic while she was posing for it.
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boss0190
Join Date 09/2005
+58
Reply #55 June 8, 2006 10:21:16 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
There is no button yet TYCUS...so we don't know. A new poll maybe? And thanks for the fairness on the Kol wall...sorry Kol..not my rules.
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Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
+1845 sdemployee
Reply #56 June 8, 2006 10:31:39 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

I would assume if I uploaded a boot with a pic of Jessica Simpson in a thong,

That problem wouldn't arise....we don't accept 'chick-walls'.

The issue with what constitutes an 'ownable' work always pops up regularly.

Put as simply as possible...

A wall is JUST A WALL.  Nothing you do to it really adds 'value' or is seen as incidental, or fair-use.  It is simply someone's wall/image.

A Logon/Bootskin generally is [hopefully] MORE than a wall.  It has 'value-added input from the uploader.

Provided the wall image is deemed approved for use in the context of a redistributed logon or boot then it will be accepted.

It is ALWAYS preferred that sources are credited and/or linked, but again, the ONUS is primarily upon the skinner/boot/logon uploader to determine that HE HAS THE RIGHTS TO USE THE IMAGE.

I'm pretty certain such is mentioned on OUR [Wincustomize.com] Terms Of Use....

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TYCUS
Join Date 09/2004
+43
Reply #57 June 8, 2006 10:33:57 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Jess told me I could use the pic while she was posing for it


oh my....
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Adamness
Join Date 08/2005
0
Reply #58 June 8, 2006 10:37:06 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
There is a point that's reached when an image is altered to an extent that it can be used with out permission. Would you say that Picasso's collages are 'rips,' since he used other images and text? Does Andy Warhol owe Campbell's for his use of their soup can images?

Of course, simply colorizing an image is not at this point, but if you manipulate and integrate an image into your own work, it becomes yours. The problem seems to be that many 'rips' here don't come close to this 'point,' and the reaching of this 'point' is subjective.

If Po' takes this image of Jessica Simpson, changes the color, draws and paints on it, flips it around, burns the edges off, tears it up and put it back together, it is his interpretation of the image, thus making it his.
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PoSmedley
Join Date 04/2005
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Reply #59 June 8, 2006 10:42:01 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
value-added input from the uploader

This is what I started saying when I first mentioned the Vistadock Icons, only I used the word 'altered' (my bad).

How do you 'add value' to someone elses copyrighted image? I can't go into the museaum and take the Mona Lisa off the wall and say "I'm gonna alter it and add value to it." It's a finished, complete work and it's value is what it is. This 'value-added input' seems more like a loophole to me. You can change the name, but a rose is still a rose; ripping is still ripping.

That problem wouldn't arise....we don't accept 'chick-walls'.

I wish there had been a 'wink' after that so I knew if you were serious or making light. It was just an example, in case you thought that I was serious.
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Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #60 June 8, 2006 11:02:25 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Sorry, Po....there should have been a 'wink'...

Though it is reality....we don't accept them...

'Value added'...

Warhol doesn't own the can...or the label on it.

He cannot claim the can as his own 'artifact'.

Likewise a wallpaper belonging to one person cannot be 'owned' by another.

Warhol DOES own the painting of the can.  He 'value-added' to the can by redefining it as a painting.

Campbells got a bit upset...though the PR must have been priceless...

The Logon uploader/skinner has more to do than just insert bitmap100 [the wall from elsewhere].  He has to also skin/draw/create a dozen or two other images.....and the sum of all that becomes the Logon....analogous to Warhol's painting.

Warhol did NOT sign the Painting 'Campbells', nor does the Logon skinner need to change his uploading nick to that of the wall artist.

Both have a responsibility [?] to not confuse ownership of that which makes up the end result.

With Warhol it was self-evident.

With [some but not all] of the Logons/boots it is not, and therein lies the problem....

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jebro
Join Date 12/2004
+54
Reply #61 June 9, 2006 12:35:35 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I can't go into the museaum and take the Mona Lisa off the wall and say "I'm gonna alter it and add value to it." It's a finished, complete work and it's value is what it is.


Are you sure?

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Double Zero
Join Date 07/2004
0
Reply #62 June 9, 2006 1:39:21 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I just wanted to take a minute to thank those of you that hoped I would reconsider, it means a great deal.

*Sighs* unfortunately no, the decisions been made and it is too late to back out now... I have my work posted at Deviant Art, all of it and then some, LoL.. Also I am a member of Skinnalicious, Skin Your Screen and I may join one other site, if they'll have me..but as far as WC..im done. It isnt the only circus in town, and it's time to move on.

Too bad, there are still alot of people here that I admire, but then, many of them also belong to other sites as well so I will run into them...

For those of you that think all I was after is my "15 minutes of fame" allow me to assure you I really tried to avoid the embarrassment of that 15 minutes..but im only human, with slight anger managment issues.."I can only take so much and then I cant take no more"..LoL

At anyrate people, I'll be around the net somwhere..LoL
Take care,
Z.
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boss0190
Join Date 09/2005
+58
Reply #63 June 9, 2006 1:44:42 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I understand totally DZ. All of my work and more is at DA too. See ya there.
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Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #64 June 9, 2006 1:50:28 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

the decisions been made and it is too late to back out now...

It's never too late, Bob.  Even deleted works can be salvaged/restored within a reasonable time [though not always the case]...

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Skinhit
Join Date 11/2004
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Reply #65 June 9, 2006 2:33:36 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
bye double zero
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TYCUS
TYCUS
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #66 June 9, 2006 4:09:33 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
I just wanted to take a minute to thank those of you that hoped I would reconsider, it means a great deal.


gg., man, i feel so bad now.., i mean for wrighting this post....
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seldomseen
Join Date 09/2002
+28
Reply #67 June 9, 2006 4:33:33 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
not you, TYCUS...don't pick that up...walk on, bro. You're just fine.
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TheGuyPC
Join Date 06/2004
0
Reply #68 June 9, 2006 6:18:44 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Damn that Pandora and her evil box!
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boss0190
Join Date 09/2005
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Reply #69 June 10, 2006 1:26:08 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
After all this copyright talk, a bootskin just posted...Alien vs Predator 3, has printed right on the bottom the copyright restrictions. "Private use only" is pretty plain to see. No one needs to go searching too far to find that and I have to say I'm pretty amazed it got posted after all of this. Oh well, just an observation.....
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Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #70 June 10, 2006 1:36:10 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
 boss0190 ...thanks for that....glitch in the matrix...it was 'supposed' to go the 'other' way...
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boss0190
Join Date 09/2005
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Reply #71 June 10, 2006 2:09:56 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
No problem Jafo. Regarding the Prince of Persia bootskins uploaded at the same time by the same person, from the Ubisoft website:

NTELLECTUAL PROPERTY
The Sites, including, without limitation, all communication features, contain copyrighted material, trademarks and other proprietary information including, without limitation, text, software, photographs, video, graphics, music and sound, and the entire contents of the Sites and each area contained therein are copyrighted as a collective work under the United States copyright laws. Ubi owns a copyright in the selection, coordination, arrangement and enhancement of such content. You may not modify, publish, transmit, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content contained on the Sites (including, without limitation, content that Ubi enables you to download) without the express written permission of Ubi and the copyright owner. In the event of any permitted copying, redistribution or publication of copyrighted material, no changes in or deletion of author attribution, trademark, legend or copyright notice shall be made. The downloading of copyrighted material from the Sites is allowed by you only for your own use. You acknowledge that the Ubi and/or third-party content providers remain the owners of all materials posted on the Sites, and that you do not acquire any of those ownership rights by downloading copyrighted materials.

Just in case there was another "glitch"
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Bichur
Join Date 10/2003
+253
Reply #72 June 10, 2006 2:27:30 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
they're still there
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Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #73 June 10, 2006 2:33:08 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Regarding the Prince of Persia bootskins uploaded at the same time by the same person, from the Ubisoft website:

The problem arises here that the uploader might not have sourced the image/s directly from the Ubisoft Website ...but may have found them elsewhere, devoid of usage restriction/s....thus making the uploader believe he was 'in the right' in using/uploading them.

Perhaps...

Any and ALL Boots or Logons should be automatically refused [moderated] if they do not have links to their source.

It seems obvious that some people cannot be relied-upon to confirm DEFINITIVE consent.

This matter needs discussion between Admins/moderators to determine formal policy.

Either way it will be difficult to adopt for existing uploads retrospectively....

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Cavan1
Join Date 08/2004
+173
Reply #74 June 10, 2006 2:41:08 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Hey Sir B., could ya use a smaller font

Perhaps...

Any and ALL Boots or Logons should be automatically refused [moderated] if they do not have links to their source.

Hey Jafo; would that mean have to upload apop, terragen, bryce and PSP X files to photobucket to link for source
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boss0190
Join Date 09/2005
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Reply #75 June 10, 2006 2:48:11 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums
Ok. Good to hear it will be discussed. There seems to be far too much leeway left to the moderators by not having as clear cut a policy as there should be.

Oh, and it does say there that even if Ubisoft permits it to be used on other sites, it will still be for personal use only.



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