Development traffic jam!

PS. I also have to check out the new screenshot arrivals.

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Someone on IRC [#stardock] commented less than 24 hours ago....something along the lines of "I wonder how long it'll be before someone demands a discount/refund for the lost uptime of the site".
I said...."it's bound to happen....it's happened before".

Give me a break jafo, did I ever mention a refund or anything along these lines? No absolutely not.

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I'll add my voice to the people expressing dissatisfaction with the way it appears all resources have been put toward GalCivII. I've been an OD subscriber for five years but I've now let it lapse: I'm tired of paying and not seeing any updates or news.

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Although I might have not been very happy with the fact that there were no updates on OD for a very long time and that most of the developers seemed to have disappeared from WC in recent times, I have to say I appreciate your honesty and I thank you for this information.

... and Jafo (#3) was right, I am now really looking forward to get the new goodies.

Posted via WinCustomize Browser/Stardock Central

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Jafo / Brad,

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. I think OD/WC customers pay for way more than 15 min. Stardock is the one allowing 20 million visitors a month to suck the bandwidth like a drunk at a pub. Subscribers don't control that, you do. I pay a subscription to help cover the bandwidth "I" use. I don't pay so 20 million users a month can browse the site, I pay so I can. Shut out the 19.9 million users if you must, I could really care less. But give those who have supported you over the years an available site. I think we deserve it, game or no game.

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I agree with kith and Jachyra.

I think the least you could've done is sent those of us who are WC subscribers an email letting us know what was going on.

I couldn't get to this site for the past 5 days/week (whatever it is), not even to the front page. The only reason I knew what was going on is because I went and looked around the Neowin forums for information.

At the very least, I feel like my subscription ought to deserve a short email giving a heads up.

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joeKnowledge

Join Date 03/2004

+2

I'm mad as hell. For a couple of years, we've heard your constant whining about Wincustomize being an independant entity from Stardock and we need to pay for the bandwidth, servers and everything else you threw our way. We renew our ObjectDesktop subscription once a year, we renew our WC subscription every other year (remember, Stardock and Wincustomize are 2 distinct entities).

And for just as many years they have been trying to get enough people to subscribe so the site cna be on its own. You subscribed of which is great, but ummm the other 40,000 people didn't subscrib but still se the site like its some sort of free ride.

I think you should blame those who could subscribe to the site and don't rather than Stardock.

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I think some people need to be put back into reality. This is just a skinning site. Your life doesn't depend on it, and if it is down for a couple days is there really a big loss? A week after things are back to normal, we'll forget it happened and enjoy the benefits, rather than dwell on a few lost hours of downtime.

This particularly won't go as smoothly when the parent company is understaffed, and the subsidiary is underfunded.

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Adamnesss : Access Class: Citizen (1) / User Level: CurrentCustomer (4)

Sure You are easy on that because You didn't pay extra for it (except for the stardock apps).

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Point being? Are you saying the opinions of non-subscribers aren't valid?

You pay $20 for one year. I bet the downtime was maybe .1% of the year, if that. Meaning 99.9% of the time WinCustomimze was up. If you are buying server space for a website, the host will usually guarantee 99.9% uptime, never 100%. So there was no big loss, or ripoff, or blow to your lives.

This was an isolated incident, which seems to be fixed now. As I said, this whole thing is probably out of people's minds already.

And it's pretty unfair for those of you who are basically accusing non-subscribers as being 'leechers' of WC. Some of us have a good reason why we haven't subscribed, and don't need being talked down to or demonized.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

I don't post often but when I do, I always try to be polite, supportive and helpful. This is not one of those time.

I'm mad as hell. For a couple of years, we've heard your constant whining about Wincustomize being an independant entity from Stardock and we need to pay for the bandwidth, servers and everything else you threw our way. We renew our ObjectDesktop subscription once a year, we renew our WC subscription every other year (remember, Stardock and Wincustomize are 2 distinct entities).

Now Stardock releases a game which is popular, whoopie, good for you. First, no updates on the OD front for 3 months, second Wincustomize (remember? that SEPARATE entity from Stardock) slows down to a crawl which you told us was because your game is a big hit (like I said earlier, good for you I'm really happy it is) and the hits on your game site and it eats up OUR bandwidth. I say OUR because we paid for it.

Now today I come to the site and it's down, not slow, totally shut down, and you have the nerve to give the link to your game site which is blindingly fast!! WTF!! Don't you have no shame?

Your game site is not WC, it's a Stardock product.

Try to tell your game customers which just paid 40 bucks a pop for your game that they need to cough up some more dough to pay for servers and bandwidth. Go on, try it, you did the exact same thing with us with WC. Let's see how they react.

In the meantime, don't shut us down at WC while your game site is running faster than Google. I don't give a crap about your game, Editor's choice or not. If there isn't enough bandwidth for WC and your game site it's not the WC community problem. Make them pay for a subscription like you did with us at WC after we paid for our OD subscription. I'm sure they'll love it.

I could live with no updates and zero presence on your part in WC for 3 months, but shutting us down for the servers and bandwidth we paid for while you game site is unaffected is not only unethical but shows a total lack of respect on the customers who help your company gets to where it is now. We (meaning the paying customers at WC) don't deserve to be treated like that, geez.

Like I said, I'm mad as hell.

The GOAL of WinCustmize.com is to be an independent entity. But we don't get enough people to subscribe so Stardock ends up footing the bill.

Last October we had a subscription drive designed to pay for new servers, bring on a full time person to work on web development and help pay for bandwidth.

We needed 2,000 people MINIMUM to even get that started. We got roughly 800 or so. This on a site with over 20 million monthly visitors.

Someone has to pay the bills for the site and that entity is Stardock. It will be money from Galactic Civilizations that hires the people WinCustomize needs to go to the next level.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

I'll add my voice to the people expressing dissatisfaction with the way it appears all resources have been put toward GalCivII. I've been an OD subscriber for five years but I've now let it lapse: I'm tired of paying and not seeing any updates or news.

You're not a subscriber to WinCustomize and never have been. So what are you talking about? Being an OD subscriber has nothing to do with WinCustomize.

When you bought Object Desktop you purchased a software product. That software product, i.e. the one that regularly wins Editor's Choice Awards, has seen significant free updates in the past year.

Your perspective frustrating because here we provide something well beyond what we have to -a FREE skinning site- and in response we get comments such as this.

It's attitudes like yours that tempts me to shut WinCustomize.com down entirely. If you think your $50 Object Desktop purchase, which includes nearly two dozen programs, somehow should also WinCustomize and that any interuption to that service is somehow affecting the value of your Object Desktop purchase then please, don't buy our products. Go. Go NOW.

I think Stardock needs to have a new policy: Object Desktop users don't get unlimited downloads of this site and in fact get no special priviledges. How does that sound? Because we know (obviously) what % of Object Desktop users make use of WinCustomize and it's not large. I realize that sounds extreme but it's quite obvious that some Object Desktop users think that their purchase of Object Desktop includes WinCustomize.com. Her'es the feature list of Object Desktop. WinCustomize is not there.

And before someone starts, we know of people posting anedotal evidence of how they learned about Object Desktop or WindowBlinds from WinCustomize and so we need it. However, since all copies of WindowBlinds/Object Desktop are sold by Stardock and share the same accounts on WC, we KNOW, to the exact number, how many customers of Object Desktop and WindowBlinds interact with WinCustomize. So when I say that Stardock doesn't need WinCustomize I say that as a fact.

Stardock cares about WinCustomize and its community. We care about it. We care about it a lot on a personal level. But from a business point of view? Stardock doesn't need WinCustomize. Object Desktop/WindowBlinds sales actually increased while WC was down, probably because the other sites were faster. So don't kid yourself that Stardock somehow needs this site. It doesn't. It WANTS WinCustomize. We love the community, but don't treat us like we're your servants. If you're a SUBSCRIBER then absolutely, we'll bend over backwards for you. But you're not.

And where were you when the site was in need last October? This whole situation of downtime wouldn't have happened if we had met the subscription drive goal of a mere 2,000 subscribers. You should be thanking the people who subscribed to this site that we were able to keep the site up at all. If it weren't for them, it wouldn't have been 16 hours of downtime, it would have been a week.

The only reason we got the new servers is because of game sales justified adding more servers which WinCustomize benefits from.

But getting back to your main point - Object Desktop gets more free updates in a given year than any other similar product (or utility) that I know of.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Jafo / Brad,

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. I think OD/WC customers pay for way more than 15 min. Stardock is the one allowing 20 million visitors a month to suck the bandwidth like a drunk at a pub. Subscribers don't control that, you do. I pay a subscription to help cover the bandwidth "I" use. I don't pay so 20 million users a month can browse the site, I pay so I can. Shut out the 19.9 million users if you must, I could really care less. But give those who have supported you over the years an available site. I think we deserve it, game or no game.

This I agree with totally. And in fact this is something we've started working on. In the future, if something like this occurrs, there will be a button that lets us switch the site to subscriber only so bring down traffic.

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We needed 2,000 people MINIMUM to even get that started.

Would equate to roughly $40,000.00. Which is what a lot of people don't see...the larger an online community grows, the larger it's support efforts must be.

If WC's "goal" is to become an independent entity, as Frogboy states, that would mean it's time to cut the imbilical cord. Sink or swim. Paying for the use of Stardock's software is one thing, giving those that bought it a 'free' subscription to WC. However, if you truly wish to fly on your own wings, you're gonna have to make a choice. Either stay that way and live with it, or switch everyone to a temporary account like I had when I first signed up. 100mb of downloads, then that's it. (but, keep in mind the rival sites that host the same themes and they don't require, yet, a subscription to keep downloading)

You can't have it both ways. You will not be able to get that many people willing to buy the software, AND have to pay for the themes. Just not going to happen, or it would have already. 20 million people stopping in to look in the window every month is a nice way of saying the site is popular, but so are the shops on 5th Ave in New York. That's all that it is...people looking in the window. The reality stems from how many customers actually come in, and buy something. How a site's popularity is judged by how many people stop by each day, is beyond me. I think it should be judged by how many people truly support the site, and use it for every day purposes.

So, knowing that, WC is either gonna have to make the jump, or stay where it's at.

As far as the updates go from Stardock, yeah, I'd appreciate getting them. Especially for CursorXP which is notorious for crashing by just installing a new cursor. Having to use Theme Manager to compensate is truly annoying.

Edit: Admin Frogboy. With all due respect, you need to tame your temper. I am telling you this from a mutual business manager's viewpoint. How you treated that poster's comment, is the same as Ronald McDonald flippen off those who drive by and don't buy any hamburgers. Now, whether this post is edited by you or not, someone's gonna see what you posted, and to be honest it's worse than a black eye. NEVER EVER EVER yell at a potential customer, or make them feel insuperior because of a question, or how they asked it. Especially not in the eye of the public. You want support for this site, but you are screaming at those who haven't purchased a subscription, or in my view, showing them predjudice because of it. Ban me if you must, no sweat off my nose...but damn man, that is not how you treat people.

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NightTrainthedark

Join Date 07/2003

+255

is the same as Ronald McDonald flippen off those who drive by and don't buy any hamburgers

Not really. Those driving by didn't make any false statements designed to put a negative slant on things.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1846

Edit: Admin Frogboy. With all due respect, you need to tame your temper. I am telling you this from a mutual business manager's viewpoint.

One thing I know about Frogboy [and quite well, too] is that he doesn't need me stepping in in his defense...but...[there's always a 'but'] It is quite presumptuous of you to be asserting a higher knowledge/acumen when it comes to appropriate business practice and how to treat a 'customer', particularly when the efficacy of said 'customer' is tenuous at best.

Truth of the matter is Stardock's business practises and success are the ONLY reasons Wincustomize.com exists [at least in this form and scale...it may have easily been someone's mum's dsl modem in a bedroom somewhere - it happens]. New whiz-bang servers are purely thanks to SD's capacity to create a popularly-received Computer Game and to market it well.

As for 'temper', sometimes it's simply not appropriate to 'kick your cat' in frustration....but to kick some sense/reality into the specific person who clearly needs it...

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Edit: Admin Frogboy. With all due respect, you need to tame your temper. I am telling you this from a mutual business manager's viewpoint. How you treated that poster's comment, is the same as Ronald McDonald flippen off those who drive by and don't buy any hamburgers. Now, whether this post is edited by you or not, someone's gonna see what you posted, and to be honest it's worse than a black eye. NEVER EVER EVER yell at a potential customer, or make them feel insuperior because of a question, or how they asked it. Especially not in the eye of the public. You want support for this site, but you are screaming at those who haven't purchased a subscription, or in my view, showing them predjudice because of it. Ban me if you must, no sweat off my nose...but damn man, that is not how you treat people.

1) I've been in business for over a decade.

2) It's already a very successful business and has been for years.

3) I don't care whether someone is a potential customer or not. I'm going to give my opinion just like anyone else -- even if it costs sales.

4) Why would you think you'd be banned for disagreeing with my opinion? You have every right to disagree with me, my attitude or how I run things.

If someone doesn't like the way WinCustomize is run, the're free to set up their own site. Here's a link to SkinBase. I like that site. By all means, anyone who objects to how I responded is free to go there and never return here. We give a place for people to voice their disagreement or opposition to something. But we have the right to respond in kind.

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This situation reminds me of when Konfabulator was bought by Yahoo and became Yahoo Widget Engine. All people did was complain about how the name changed and how they were so outraged the name changed and they'll stop using the program because the name changed. They didn't like how there was no direct download installation and it was the worst thing anyone has ever done in all of time.

Back in reality, Yahoo's aquisition allowed for further development and made the widgets free. How can anyone possibly complain about that?

In this case the site was down for not even a day, so Stardock could keep the flow of paying customers for their new game. And yet, rather than congratulate the people of Stardock for their overwhelming success, people complain. Look at the big picture, folks. This benefits us! Don't get mad!

I look at WC as more of a privlege, mostly because I get everything I want with out having a subscription. Before I get flamed about that, let me put it in perspective: $20 is what I have to spend for food for about 4 days. So I appreciate Stardock and the other subscribers who keep so much available for me, and for all of us. Until WC is a paysite only, I'll enjoy what's offered here, and you won't hear any complaints out of me.

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anything stardock has put out has been exceptional, innovative and very much well worth any reasonable wait with all you and your amazing staff do....thanks and i look forward to a long future of your wonderful products

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HG_Eliminator

Join Date 07/2002

+354

OMGBBQPUDDING!!!!!!..... IM GONA croak if i cant see WC for a day!!!! .....yesh

...

"end of sarcasm"

now while I may have had withdrawels from my favorite site .. Oddly enough,the world hasent ended...

I look at it this way...every and I mean every site on the web has at one time or another shut down for an amount of time.. a few hours,or more depending on the reasons.. to think that it cant happen to WC is, nieve at best...but heck think of the benefits the closure is bringing...new servers,all kinds of upgrades,etc...

Brad and the Stardock staff as well as WC staff have been forth right and honest with us about all the goings on...to be honest they didnt have to say a crapping thing .. Most sites typically dont say any thing more than "sorry we had some issues and are now up and running" when they close doors for any given reason..

Me? I will embrace the new goodies coming our way .......

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I think the whole problem we are facing at the moment and that causes growing dissatisfaction is promises made and not held. I won't go into much detail here. Latest incident in one word : Apogee. The latest excuse for the update not being available is a problem with the vista-format. How many users here may possibly face that problem ? 0,01 % ? In this case something has really gone wrong with priorities I think.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1846

How many users here may possibly face that problem ? 0,01 % ?

Ultimately probably all of them. Looking slightly further forward it'd be a relative waste of effort to create such an extensive icon set only to have its useability/relevance time-bombed by the onset of a new OS. Alittle more of a wait won't hurt anyone, surely....

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Whats wrong with Apogee? Hell, I like it, even without any update. I Gave them Two cappuccino's and a roll for it. What the hell. And as for the down time, I just got caught up on deviantART. Keep on workin on it Brad, I have faith in you.

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Lantec

Join Date 07/2003

+346

In the future, if something like this occurrs, there will be a button that lets us switch the site to subscriber only so bring down traffic.

Thank You.
The web becomes habitual for many of us and when you can't get that fix (or a portion thereof), withdrawal can be painful.

My two cents; the release of WB5 and the initially dangerous Iconpackager 3 were the only major updates to OD since August. I personally consider Object Desktop essential software so even this little hiccup is something I can suffer through. I'm not a gamer so I haven't benefited from the major increase in games offered by Stardock.

I hope the dam breaks soon for some programs are past due for some wish list responses like Right-Click, Object Bar & Object Dock. You run the risk of falling behind your competition from programs like Desktop Sidebar & Yahoo Widgets. I use several widgets, but none from DX3 all from Yahoo. Check out Wunder Radar from Yahoo and also the Day Planner widget. DX3 has no offerings like these and I find both invaluable. You also have a couple of programs that no longer seem to function like Virtual Desktops & Windows FX both of which I used to run but I've moved to other software for VD and learned to live without WFX.

In short I'm a dedicated OD fan but I find myself having to migrate to other programs to fill "the gaps" that are starting to show. I hope your not holding back waiting for MS to release Vista. Look at their record over the years and you'll see they never meet a release date. I also have been in business for more than 16 years and I have learned never to put all my eggs in one basket.

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Development traffic jam!

Development not slowing down, communication has!